Noir, Neo-noir and young adults...

[Adam Lounsbery]

Let's see, chronological order would look like this:

Stranger on the Third Floor (1940)
Double Indemnity (1944)
Murder, My Sweet (1944)
The Big Sleep (1946)
The Killers (1946)
Spellbound (1946)
Out of the Past (1947)
The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
The Asphalt Jungle (1949)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
The Big Combo (1955)
Sweet Smell of Success (1957)

I actually think that looks like a great way to program them (and I'm not just saying that because I write a blog devoted to the art of watching movies in the order they were released ).

You're getting Double Indemnity early, which is great, since it's one of the seminal film noirs. You're also getting The Big Sleep immediately after Murder, My Sweet, and they're the two really good Philip Marlowe adaptations.

If you end up showing The Asphalt Jungle, I definitely second Mark's suggestion that you show The Killing ... or at least mention it to your students. Both are heist films, both star Sterling Hayden, and both are fantastic.

[Justanotherdame]

I'm just a student here compared to some of the pros here like Fast Eddie and Steve-O, but I will definitely pop in on your blog... I think it's great you're bringing film noir to your students. My university film professor only showed our class one measly noir film

I don't feel so inadequate anymore. LOL It's obvious, though, that you know one heck of a lot more than I do about this fascinating genre. Thank you. They do seem interested which is great. Whether they'll have staying power or not remains to be seen.

The Killing is an excellent suggestion and one of my favourite films. Kubrick's pacing and plot narration are quick and DP Lucien Ballard makes great work of lighting Sterling Hayden's face. Fantastic heist film with Elisha Jr, Marie Windsor and scene stealer Tim Carey.

I just stumbled across Blood Simple on HDNM channel and can't believe it wasn't mentioned here yet. Really fantastic neo from the Coen brothers. It's airing again Sunday nite in case you have that channel and want to check it out.

It seems Blood Simple is preferred over Body Heat as a possible pairing with Double Indemnity. I'm not sure I'll be able to show the twelve titles I posted, but I'll try at least for seven.

[Justanotherdame]

It may almost seem like too obvious a suggestion, but rather then list them in any order based on popularity or any personal opinion, how about showing them in chronological order?

Once they are comfortable enough with understanding the original films you can follow this up with the introduction of neo-noir pointing out the reasons for the genre resurrection and updating. This should generate some interesting comparative discussion.

I've decided to go with the chronological order and Adam has kindly put my previous list in that order for me. I might only have time for seven films, now. It will all depend on how long the films are. I have a feeling some might be shorter than current feature films, so that would help. Next year, I'll start much earlier so that I can spend two or three months on the project. It would be great if I could throw in one or two neo-noirs this year.

[Justanotherdame]

IMO, you can never go wrong with The Big Sleep, Out of the Past, and The Killers. The opening scene in the latter is one of the most chilling in cinema, I think.

From my list, I'll definitely throw in these three, plus The Asphalt Jungle.

[Justanotherdame]

Let's see, chronological order would look like this:

Stranger on the Third Floor (1940)
Double Indemnity (1944)
Murder, My Sweet (1944)
The Big Sleep (1946)
The Killers (1946)
Spellbound (1946)
Out of the Past (1947)
The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
The Asphalt Jungle (1949)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
The Big Combo (1955)
Sweet Smell of Success (1957)

I actually think that looks like a great way to program them (and I'm not just saying that because I write a blog devoted to the art of watching movies in the order they were released ).

You're getting Double Indemnity early, which is great, since it's one of the seminal film noirs. You're also getting The Big Sleep immediately after Murder, My Sweet, and they're the two really good Philip Marlowe adaptations.

If you end up showing The Asphalt Jungle, I definitely second Mark's suggestion that you show The Killing ... or at least mention it to your students. Both are heist films, both star Sterling Hayden, and both are fantastic.

Thank you so much, Adam, for putting these films in order for me. I'm going to have to choose between [B]the Killers[B] and The Killing (time constraints). If I go for The Asphalt Jungle should I then definitely go for The Killing?

[Adam Lounsbery]

Thank you so much, Adam, for putting these films in order for me. I'm going to have to choose between the Killers and The Killing (time constraints). If I go for The Asphalt Jungle should I then definitely go for The Killing?

You're welcome!

If it were me, I'd go with Kubrick's The Killing over Siodmak's The Killers because it makes a nice pairing with The Asphalt Jungle, it's shorter (85 minutes vs. 103), and I think it's a little more energetic and exciting.

The Killers is a very good movie, but you've already got a lot of movies on the list from the mid-'40s, and fewer from the '50s.

Either way, though, I think you're in a win-win situation.

[Justanotherdame]

You're welcome!

If it were me, I'd go with Kubrick's The Killing over Siodmak's The Killers because it makes a nice pairing with The Asphalt Jungle, it's shorter (85 minutes vs. 103), and I think it's a little more energetic and exciting.

Thank you, Adam. Great blog you have.

[Justanotherdame]

So, I have finally started the journey and Stranger on the Third Floor provoked interesting comments. Most of my students really liked the film. I also watched it for the first time. I didn't expect to find any moments of levity in the film, but, obviously, the romantic moments and the music that accompanied them (jolly music) formed the perfect contrast to the apparent paranoia that infused some of the most remarkable scenes in the film. And to think this was made in 1940! Peter Lorre is uncannily disturbing and John McGuire's dream sequence extraordinarily evocative. The deus ex machina death of Peter Lorre could ruin the film, but it would be irresponsible to think the film banal. It isn't. It works on the viewer in an insidious way because of what it suggests: that normalcy can so rapidly and imperceptibly shift into abnormality and as quickly seem to reverse back again, and that none of us are immune to fluctuations of this nature.

As to my student's comment. She said that it is the first time she was able to relate completely to a male character... I'm sure she will have more to say about this which I will be happy to share with you.

Thank you again for all your encouragement and interest.

We are now on to Double Indemnity.

[Justanotherdame]

update.

My students were all completely taken with Double Indemnity. As am I. What a great film! I really love the voice over. In fact, of all the movies I have mentioned, here, which of them have voice over? I think that is one of the reasons I prefer the theatrical release of Blade Runner to the director's cut, in spite of its contrived ending. Sailing off into the sunset together? Not for that particular film, thank you.

Back to Double Indemnity. Great repartee, wonderful story, and, as has been said before, what a great idea it was casting MacMurray as Neff! I was able to identify so many of the elements of the genre in this film. To continue what we were saying on the Human Nature thread, here, Neff definitely jumped willingly.

[Roger Wade]

Double Indemnity is a great film to start a lifelong passion for Film Noir, as happened to me (see earlier post). Some of these viewers will have enjoyed it as a suspenseful and entertaining film but one or two will think about this film long after watching and then rent or buy the DVD and return to it again, read the book, watch other noir films with Stanwyck, read other books by James M. Cain (Postman, Mildred Pierce) and watch the film versions of these books too. It is a film that never bores me, sometimes I watch it to take notice of little details in the photography or in the superb screenplay, and often I just watch it to enjoy myself and get carried away by the plot and the atmosphere. It is one of those films you can analyse academically to the bone but this will never take away the fun of sheer good movie making and watching.

[Justanotherdame]

[ It is one of those films you can analyse academically to the bone but this will never take away the fun of sheer good movie making and watching.

It just occurred to me that apart from being the quintessential Film Noir, Double Indemnity has extraordinary pacing. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but it seems ahead of its time in this regard. Stanwick is not quite my idea of thefemme fatale; being a woman, I am perhaps imune to whatever makes her a femme fatale in others' eyes, so I don't really find her seductive enough. I think I prefer a darker, more brooding type of femme fatale. There is an icy quality about her, though, that does work. MacMurray comes out looking like the more emotional of the two, although he is just as ruthless if not more so.

You are right that some might enjoy the film because it is suspenseful and entertaining, but I think my students like the idea of a man bound for perdition; even willingly bound for perdition.

I just bought Alain Silver's Film Noir: The Encyclopedia and was reading up on Double Indemnity. (What a great encyclopedia!). I will definitely be watching Double Indemnity more than once.

My foray into Film Noir/Neo-Noir is whetting my appetite for Noir fiction. I had never heard of James M. Cain (Postma... is fabulous and, I confess, I do like the remake), but he is now on my radar. Mildred Pierce has been made into a mini-series and I do find it very good so far (two parts watched).

I hope I have sparked someone's interest for more Noir, and I trust that by the end of this experiment I definitely will have.

[Roger Wade]

It must be remembered that up to Double Indemnity Barbara Stanwyck was not known for evil femmes fatales. During the early 1940s she played romantic leads and very funny roles in The Lady Eve, Lady of Burlesque and Ball of Fire. Double Indemnity was quite a big change for her even when we now think of Stanwyck as the quintessential Black Widow with dark thoughts, holding a gun. Even when the character of Phyllis in the novel is a bit younger and different (more crazy!), Stanwyck portrayal fits the mood of the film much better. She has indeed a kind of cheap and sleazy sexual quality. A darker, more brooding type would make the film a bit too over the top, too Gothic. After all, Phyllis is a Los Angeles house wife stuck in a boring marriage. We take that portrayal for granted now but when you think of it, before DI there wasn't anything like it.

The same with MacMurray, in another context he would just be a nice guy to drink a beer with and to share a few jokes. The meeting of these two characters brought out the worst in them. Stanwyck and MacMurray were together in an earlier film, a romantic comedy called Remember the Night and they were just two nice people who had a very funny chemistry. So very unlike Double Indemnity.

I did not see the new Mildred Pierce for HBO (I am in Europe and it is not shown here yet) but it is NOT a remake of the 1945 version with Joan Crawford but an adaptation of the novel, which is very 1930s Great Depression. The book is very good though, even without a murder.

[Justanotherdame]

It must be remembered that up to Double Indemnity Barbara Stanwyck was not known for evil femmes fatales. During the early 1940s she played romantic leads and very funny roles in The Lady Eve, Lady of Burlesque and Ball of Fire.
The same with MacMurray, in another context he would just be a nice guy to drink a bear with and to share a few jokes. The meeting of these two characters brought out the worst in them. Stanwyck and MacMurray were together in an earlier film, a romantic comedy called Remember the Night and they were just two nice people who had a very funny chemistry. So very unlike Double Indemnity.

I did not see the new Mildred Pierce for HBO (I am in Europe and it is not shown here yet) but it is NOT a remake of the 1945 version with Joan Crawford but an adaptation of the novel, which is very 1930s Great Depression. The book is very good though, even without a murder.

I didn't know that about Stanwick. I know Wilder took a chance with MacMurray and I find him really good. The chemistry worked and the film works really well.
As I mentioned in my amateur blog about my first forays into film noir and exposing mys tudents to the genre, the meeting of these two characters bringing out, as you say, the worst in both reminds me of Sartre's play, No Exit.

I hope Mildred Pierce makes to Europe. The mini-series is very good (what I've seen of it) and worth watching.

I'm definitely going to explore Noir fiction, now.

One of the things I like in the films that use it is voice over (narration). I'm interested in seeing how this voice comes through in the novels of great Noir genre pioneers like Chandler.

[Adam Lounsbery]

I'm definitely going to explore Noir fiction, now.

James M. Cain is an interesting writer, and his novels are well worth exploring.

The Postman Always Rings Twice is a hard-boiled classic, and a quick read.

Serenade is about a gay/straight love triangle in the opera world. Very weird and over-the-top.

Mildred Pierce is less "noir" than the film adaptation. I love it. It's probably my favorite Cain novel. It's a very realistic portrait of a woman and her thankless struggles.

Love's Lovely Counterfeit is a classic "mob town" story, in the Red Harvest mold, but with more of a focus on politics.

Double Indemnity is very similar to the film, although I think Phyllis Dietrichson is a more grotesque, baroque creation in the novel. (And her last name is "Nirdlinger" in the novel. Ha!)

Those are the only ones I've read, but they're all worth reading, in my opinion. I think David Goodis and Jim Thompson are great, too. Cornell Woolrich was extremely influential for film noir, but I find his prose hackneyed and his characterizations nonexistent. He's worth reading, but I've never really liked any of his novels.

Glad to hear your students and you enjoyed Double Indemnity. I look forward to your next update.

[Movie Memories]

Very glad to hear that your students were so enthusiastic about viewing Double Indemnity. It's a great film with which to begin their exposure to noir and is in a sense, "starting at the top."

You are right that some might enjoy the film because it is suspenseful and entertaining, but I think my students like the idea of a man bound for perdition; even willingly bound for perdition.

From the first time Walter Neff cast his eyes, and his imagination, on Phyllis Dietrichson, his fate was sealed. She had him right where whe wanted him.

As for the pacing of the film, the credit must go to director Billy Wilder. He did a great job building and maintaining the tension.

Most of you will probably know this, but for those who may not, the storyline was based on a 1927 real-life killing where the wife and her lover killed her husband for the insurance.

[Roger Wade]

I think David Goodis and Jim Thompson are great, too. Cornell Woolrich was extremely influential for film noir, but I find his prose hackneyed and his characterizations nonexistent. He's worth reading, but I've never really liked any of his novels.

I like very much The Bride Wore Black, I read the book years before watching the Truffaut film with Jeanne Moreau. I found the book really a page turner. And the film is extremely loyal to the novel, even when set in a French provincial setting. This film is worth a Noir of the Week, it is Truffaut's homage to Hitchcock.

I have an interesting book: Cornell Woolrich, from Pulp Noir to Film Noir by Thomas C. Renzi. It compares about every film based on a Woolrich book/short story and compares the films with their literary sources. I can recommend this book to everybody interested in pulp/film noir. You will be amazed how many interesting films were based an a Woolrich story.

[Justanotherdame]

Glad to hear your students and you enjoyed Double Indemnity. I look forward to your next update.

I'm very grateful to you, Adam, for the great list of Noir authors/short stories/novels. My only previous experience with James M. Cain was the knowledge that The Postman Always Rings Twice (the film[s]) originated from Cain's work. After seeing Mildred Pierce (the recent series), I am definitely intrigued.

He seems so different from a writer like Raymond Chandler. "Cross-genre" is the word that comes to mind in Cain's case. I understand that the series is different from the Noir film (which I haven't yet watched). The series had a very pat ending. Husband and wife reunite! I don't feel this is very much in keeping with what I have observed so far re. the Noir genre, but maybe it's because I'm inexperienced with it, or I just don't know Cain well enough.

The maliciousness of having your own daughter betray you in such a way is demonic. I'm going to sound totally cynical, but I have this nagging feeling that situations like this are more common than we think. Mother/daughter relationships are not easy at the best of times. That Cain should have picked up on this, and, as a man, wished to address it in his writing speaks volumes about him. To me, at least. Cain's sensitivity seems to be finely honed. (Note to self: do more research on this author and his background).


Now to the update in a different post re. my students' reactions to Double Indemnity, Body Heat (which, if memory serves me right, you don't like, Adam...), Blood Simple and The Lady from Shanghai.

[Fast Eddie]

The MILDRED PIERCE mini-series ended exactly like the book, right down to the last line of dialogue.

[Justanotherdame]

Well, the academic year has ended and my students really enjoyed the films.

Apparently what got them each time was the dialogue. Hardly surprising, when I think that many of the scripts were written by some of the greatest masters of the genre, taken, often, from some great writers. Young adults are not used to B & W, nor to some of the acting of the 1950s. No special effects, but always an insightful glance into the human condition. That is powerful. I have the proof how powerful. That's what got them, I think. They were often mesmerized.

Next year, I'm going to start this film unit earlier and work English around the films and the issues they present.

I was really surprised by Rita Hayworth's performance in the Lady from Shanghai. For some reason, maybe because of the photos I saw of her, I had the impression that she wouldn't be able to pull off a more dramatic, serious character. Boy was I mistaken!

I was reminded of Hitchcock. Perhaps because of Hayworth's blond hair in this film?

[Justanotherdame]

I was over at the great What Are You Reading? thread and was wondering if you could suggest noir short story anthologies that I could share with my students. (Unfortunately, I have to keep the swearing to a minimum). If I'm going to a build a whole course around the noir and neo-noir genre, I need written texts. In fact, if anyone could suggest some great articles re. the issues raised by the genre, they would also be greatly appreciated. (I didn't think that thread would be the right place to bring this up).

Thank you as always.