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Thread: A Hard Core Noir Genre

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    Outfit boss cigar joe's Avatar
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    Hard Core List to Date adding They Made me a Fugitive:

    The Big Combo
    Crime Wave
    Raw Deal
    The Asphalt Jungle
    He Walked By Night
    Criss Cross
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    Crossfire
    Red Light
    They Live By Night
    Where Danger Lives
    The Set Up
    The Phantom Lady
    Scarlett Street
    Detour
    The Window
    99 River Street
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    Double Indemnity
    T Men
    The Killing
    Dead Reckoning
    The Crooked Way
    Edge of Doom
    The Dark Corner
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    Kiss Me Deadly
    Sudden Fear
    Armored Car Robbery
    They Made me a Fugitive

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    Administrator City Editor Steve-O's Avatar
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    Our friend Wheeler Winston Dixon has a nice interview where he discusses Film Noir -- whether or not it's a genre or not comes up:

    Dixon also took issue with a Film Streams press release that said movie experts debate whether noir is a style or a genre.


    "That argument was settled long ago," he said. "It's a genre. It has style, of course. High key lighting, lots of shadows, run-down sets, threadbare costumes, low ceilings, confrontational in-your-face close-ups, off-kilter camera angles. Visual style it has, to burn."
    A good read.

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    Gumshoe Arthur Bannister's Avatar
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    Dixon also took issue with a Film Streams press release that said movie experts debate whether noir is a style or a genre.


    "That argument was settled long ago," he said. "It's a genre."
    Well, we can certainly agree that it's been settled in his mind.

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    Administrator City Editor Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Bannister View Post
    Well, we can certainly agree that it's been settled in his mind.
    lol... that was my first thought...

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    PAINT IT BLACK! Mob enforcer noirguru's Avatar
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    When I was in college, I took a course on, American Film Genres. We studied every genre, you could think of, but not Film Noir! We believed that Film Noir was a style that could apply to certain genres, i.e. Mystery Genre, but it's definitely not a genre, it can't stand alone!
    Last edited by noirguru; 04-06-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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    Some worry we lower the bar
    And confer to bestow the term "noir"
    Is it genre or style?
    (This goes on for a while)
    I'll defer, and just go to the bar.

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    Outfit boss cigar joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cigar joe View Post
    Hard Core List to Date adding They Made me a Fugitive:

    The Big Combo
    Crime Wave
    Raw Deal
    The Asphalt Jungle
    He Walked By Night
    Criss Cross
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    Crossfire
    Red Light
    They Live By Night
    Where Danger Lives
    The Set Up
    The Phantom Lady
    Scarlett Street
    Detour
    The Window
    99 River Street
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    Double Indemnity
    T Men
    The Killing
    Dead Reckoning
    The Crooked Way
    Edge of Doom
    The Dark Corner
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    Kiss Me Deadly
    Sudden Fear
    Armored Car Robbery
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Add Storm Warning to the list at least visually, the story is a bit weak though

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    Updated & made alphabetical

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window
    Last edited by cigar joe; 06-09-2012 at 04:14 PM.

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    Rookie Falcon41's Avatar
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    Well, I doubt there's any disagreement that "The Killers" is pure noir, starting with that stunning opening sequence! I turned a friend of mine on to this film recently and it knocked her socks off.

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    Updated with The City That Never Sleeps

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    The City That Never Sleeps
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window

  11. #51
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    Updated with Desperate

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    The City That Never Sleeps
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Desperate
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window

  12. #52
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    Adding Hollow Triumph (The Scar)

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    The City That Never Sleeps
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Desperate
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Hollow Triumph (The Scar)
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window

  13. #53
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    Adding The Street With No Name after a second viewing.

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    The City That Never Sleeps
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Desperate
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Hollow Triumph (The Scar)
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    The Street With No Name
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window

  14. #54
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    Adding Cry Of The City after a second viewing.

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    The City That Never Sleeps
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    Cry Of The City
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Desperate
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Hollow Triumph (The Scar)
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    The Street With No Name
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window
    Last edited by cigar joe; 11-21-2012 at 06:11 PM.

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    Mob enforcer dlhartzog's Avatar
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    Key Largo, Fallen Sparrow, Railroaded, Force of Evil, Pitfall? All pretty dark, and i think they meet quite a few of the other elements.
    Last edited by dlhartzog; 01-06-2013 at 07:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlhartzog View Post
    Key largo, fallen sparrow, railroaded, force of evil, pitfall? All pretty dark, and i think they meet quite a few of the other elements.
    Yes Pitfall for sure - I haven't seen Fallen Sparrow or Force of Evil yet (that I can remember)- Railroaded and Key largo are probably good candidates also thanks

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    I hesitate to recommend films, tastes differ and so on, but Force of Evil is terrific, with John Garfield as a crooked lawyer and Marie Windsor as the femme fatale. Very atmospheric, snappy blank verse dialogue, lowlife locations, available on bluray. So too Fallen Sparrow, film noir with all the trimmings, plus Nazis. Garfield again. Also available on dvd through Warners.
    Last edited by dlhartzog; 01-06-2013 at 07:06 PM.

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    Will have to check them out, thanks.

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    adding The Seventh Victim

    Films de la nuit

    Armored Car Robbery
    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Big Combo
    Black Angel
    The City That Never Sleeps
    Crime Wave
    Criss Cross
    The Crooked Way
    Crossfire
    Cry Of The City
    The Dark Corner
    Dead Reckoning
    Desperate
    Detour
    Double Indemnity
    Edge of Doom
    Fallen Angel
    He Walked By Night
    Hollow Triumph (The Scar)
    Killers Kiss
    The Killers
    The Killing
    Kiss Me Deadly
    The Narrow Margin
    Night And The City
    99 River Street
    The Phantom Lady
    Raw Deal
    Red Light
    Scarlett Street
    The Seventh Victim
    The Strange Lives of Martha Ivers
    Sudden Fear
    Storm Warming
    T Men
    The Set Up
    The Street With No Name
    They Live By Night
    They Made me a Fugitive
    Touch Of Evil
    Where Danger Lives
    Where The Sidewalk Ends
    The Window

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    I wonder why you feel a need for a list. I guess it's a game, and if I don't want to play I should shut up and walk away. But... Sure, like a fashionable neighborhood, the boundaries of noir keep expanding to fit every film with a guy in a fedora. But taking the correction this far feels like a reductive, academic process. I wonder why masterpieces like GUN CRAZY and MOONRISE are not on the list. Is it because the lovers don't betray each other? They aren't "noir" enough? OUT OF THE PAST and FORCE OF EVIL are noir, but do not make the list. And there are others. But we will always debate this subject, and will always disagree. And for me, it's a good thing that noir can't be pinned down, because it reveals the essential fact that it never was a working genre. It's a term applied retroactively to describe a period and style of crime film. All that matters to me is if a film is good. Hell, there are noir westerns, a genre that you use at the start to define what you think a genre should be. But noir is unlike all other genres. I guess it's a game that I don't want to play. I'm reminded of a song title, "Let the Mystery Be."

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