Noir Stained or Softcore Noir?

[noirguru]

Foster Hirsch, has created the term, "Noir Stained" for a film that isn't a traditional hardcore noir. He cites as an example, A Hatful of Rain (1957), because it has some noir elements but isn't a traditional hardcore noir. I like this idea, what do you think? I'd like to add a couple of films to the list, The Bachelor Party (1957), and The Middle of the Night (1959). What films would you add?

[cigar joe]

Don't recall seeing either of those films, list a few more but it sounds sort of on the same concept of the Near Noir thread that I started. ;-)

[noirguru]

Don't recall seeing either of those films, list a few more but it sounds sort of on the same concept of the Near Noir thread that I started. ;-)

CJ, I think it's on the same concept of your Near Noir thread, you and Hirsch are on the same page! I think films like, The Lost Weekend (1945), Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962) are good further examples of Noir Stained or Near Noir!

[Steve-O]

I would say that because The Lost Weekend was one of a handful of films the French actually identified as noir first, that The Lost Weekend is a pure noir. Looking back, it may be a Near Noir looking at it, but it was one of the first to be called film noir.

[Surly]

I prefer the term "near noir" to "noir stained" for the alliteration, but it isn't very poetic. And both hard and softcore have an unpleasant porn connotation. But what about "softboiled noir"? That term seems more closely connected to the noir lexicon.

[Steve-O]

But what about "softboiled noir"? That term seems more closely connected to the noir lexicon.

I second that.

[cigar joe]

I like that also Soft Boiled Noirs.

Another take can be this below that I alluded to on the Casablanca Noir or Not thread, and this is for the "Hard Boiled Noirs" i.e.:

It would almost be better to say that, rather than call these films a genre call them a style/tool of film making used in certain film/plot sequences or for a films entirety that was used to conveyed claustrophobia, alienation, obsession, and events spiraling out of control, that came to fruition in the roughly the period of the last two and a half decades of B&W film.

Then you can say we have this Hard Boiled Film Noir Style that can have two opposite poles one would be Films de la nuit, Films of the night, , Films of the eternal night, the opposite would be Films Soleil, films of the sun, those sun baked, filled with light Noirs, then all the rest would fit in the spectrum in between being various shades of grey or Films Gris. No? ;-)

[Surly]

It would almost be better to say that, rather than call these films a genre call them a style/tool of film making used in certain film/plot sequences or for a films entirety that was used to conveyed claustrophobia, alienation, obsession, and events spiraling out of control, that came to fruition in the roughly the period of the last two and a half decades of B&W film.

Then you can say we have this Hard Boiled Film Noir Style that can have two opposite poles one would be Films de la nuit, Films of the night, , Films of the eternal night, the opposite would be Films Soleil, films of the sun, those sun baked, filled with light Noirs, then all the rest would fit in the spectrum in between being various shades of grey or Films Gris. No? ;-)

While we might succeed in defining "softboiled Noir", I'm afraid it's too late to attempt to reclassify the genre of Noir a style. And this argument is not exactly new. Noir is a singular genre, the only one where one could argue that style is as important as content. I suppose Noir should be strictly considered a sub-genre of the crime film, the "crime noir". No one questions whether a film is a musical or a western, but confusion is inherent in Noir's catch-all and slippery nature. I love crime and gangster films that are not Noir, and many Noir films leave me cold. Frankly, I tire of all the quibbling about classifications and definitions. I don't really care about the academic stuff, just the movies.

[cigar joe]

For me I love the really dark and foreboding films with the Noir stylistics. I get tired of getting burned by an all inclusive Noir label/definition.

[Surly]

I hear you. It's like real estate: the more popular (and pricier) a neighborhood gets, the more its boundaries expand. This is either intentionally deceptive--on the part of marketers--or due to laziness and misinformation--just about everyone else. Let's employ a darkness scale, ranging from hard boiled (true noir) to soft boiled (noirish mysteries, crime, gangster, etc. films). You know, of course, that we will endlessly argue about any given darkness rating...

"I give it a firm 6 minutes on the Hard Boiled scale." "Are you CRAZY?!? It's still runny! Definitely Soft Boiled."

[cigar joe]

I hear you. It's like real estate: the more popular (and pricier) a neighborhood gets, the more its boundaries expand. This is either intentionally deceptive--on the part of marketers--or due to laziness and misinformation--just about everyone else. Let's employ a darkness scale, ranging from hard boiled (true noir) to soft boiled (noirish mysteries, crime, gangster, etc. films). You know, of course, that we will endlessly argue about any given darkness rating...

"I give it a firm 6 minutes on the Hard Boiled scale." "Are you CRAZY?!? It's still runny! Definitely Soft Boiled."

Lol, I know

[noirguru]

I like that also Soft Boiled Noirs.

Another take can be this below that I alluded to on the Casablanca Noir or Not thread, and this is for the "Hard Boiled Noirs" i.e.:

It would almost be better to say that, rather than call these films a genre call them a style/tool of film making used in certain film/plot sequences or for a films entirety that was used to conveyed claustrophobia, alienation, obsession, and events spiraling out of control, that came to fruition in the roughly the period of the last two and a half decades of B&W film.

Then you can say we have this Hard Boiled Film Noir Style that can have two opposite poles one would be Films de la nuit, Films of the night, , Films of the eternal night, the opposite would be Films Soleil, films of the sun, those sun baked, filled with light Noirs, then all the rest would fit in the spectrum in between being various shades of grey or Films Gris. No? ;-)

I don't care for the terms Soft Boiled or Hard Boiled Noirs, it makes me think of cooking eggs! I'll stick with Noir and Near Noir, I don't think we need a Noir Darkness Scale, were not dealing with science.
I like Films de la nuit and the opposite, Films Soleil and for various shades of grey, Films Gris, as a good way to describe B&W Film Noirs! I think that with Film Noir, one label or definition doesn't do justice to the films!

[cigar joe]

I don't care for the terms Soft Boiled or Hard Boiled Noirs, it makes me think of cooking eggs! I'll stick with Noir and Near Noir, I don't think we need a Noir Darkness Scale, were not dealing with science.
I like Films de la nuit and the opposite, Films Soleil and for various shades of grey, Films Gris, as a good way to describe B&W Film Noirs! I think that with Film Noir, one label or definition doesn't do justice to the films!

Not only doesn't it do justice but with marketers calling everything Film Noir with a very broad definition it waters down the product. I like like the Films de la nuit, Films Soleil, and Films Gris breakdown. Now if we all get on the same page start using it, it will help in making purchasing decisions.