Streaming Revenue

[Movie Memories]

According to an article in The Hollywood Reporter this year's revenue from streaming movies will eclipse the revenue from dvd sales.

For all of us who love noir, as well as other older films, this can't be good news. The cost of restoring, what usable 35mm prints that can be found, added to the cost of manufacturing and distribution makes the opportunity for profitability increasingly difficult.

As a result, it seems inevitable that when dvd sales decline so will restoration efforts. Right now we are fortunate in having the Film Noir Foundation, Warner Archive, Criterion, Kino, Olive, Screen Archive, and Timelss Media helping to satisfy our desire for these older films.

But, for how long can this go on? There will seemingly be a point where the general buying public will decide to wait until a film is offered by a streaming service rather than having to actually buy the film.

As much as I appreciate the availability of older films offered by streaming services, they usually are not near the quality of a dvd or blu-ray release of a restored film.

We may, in the not too distant future, find ourselves in a situation where dvd production drops dramatically and those who own the rights to older films will turn to streaming services as their primary avenue for sales.

This will drive the cost of streaming films up for the services themselves and this cost will be passed down to the users.

It seems like the end result will be fewer quality release options available for these films and increased cost just to view them.

What do you think?

[Nauga]

I have a realistic (cynical) outlook about the future of film, both future and classic. Classic film fans and private foundations have been clamoring for support to restore (not just restore, but save) celluloid and print films for a long, long time and it's always been somewhat of an esoteric issue. I'm not sure I see it gaining much support in an era where everything will be produced digitally and available instantly. I think streaming digital media has been a curse and a blessing as far as film goes. The past couple of years, us hard-cores have been blessed with being able to see a number of films that haven't been available and the quality... well, sometimes we were just happy to be able to hear the dialogue.

If the day comes where I can own a restored, beautiful, digital print of They Live By Night, that I can futuristically tote around wherever I go? That sounds great, but will it look as good as blu-ray? Who knows. I see things going in that direction with cloud technology, but all of this begs the "piracy" question, which I can't stand but Hollywood seems to be preoccupied with.

It's sad, because in the grand scheme of things it seems we had a very small window of opportunity as far as producing and owning hard copy restored films. Technology swept us through VHS, lase rdisc, DVD, and blu-ray and now here we have arrived at an intangible product! Quality's gotten better, but there is a plateau (looks like Peter Jackson found it.)

Hopefully, the efforts to restore print film won't be wasted, but the cost is going to be a major issue as far as demand goes, but I'm not very optimistic about future demand.

BUT! I will try to remain optimistic, despite my very cynical post above!

[Hard-Boiled-Rick]

Film noir streaming has the potential to reach a larger audience than film noir DVDs and potentially increase the size of the film noir 'fan base.' Streaming costs and and its deliverability on a variety of viewing platforms casts a wider net than DVDs.

Neophytes to film noir who turn into film noir aficionados because of streaming potentially could enlarge the film noir 'fan base.' The larger fan base could contribute more dollars to restoration efforts, especially if streaming providers (Netflix, etc) promote film noir awareness and its restoration, jointly with FNF, UCLA, noir fests, etc. Streaming offers great potential for raising the awareness of noir to the unconverted...the deprived souls who do not see, view, and dream in Alton gray scales.

On the question of delivery costs and margins, do DVDs actually carry a higher margin than streaming? It would be interesting to examine actual numbers...revenues, costs, and margins for each delivery method. And number of streaming views versus DVDs or Blu-ray sold.

Also steaming could offer a much longer 'long tail' of rare and forgotten noirs which dwell in the netherworld of obscurity...noirs that would not normally be seen even by connoisseurs except at noir festivals like Noir City or the Film Forum because the rarities of noir are not available in DVD.

Although viewing quality is certainly an issue for streaming, compared to DVD or Blu-ray, it could lead and guide neophytes to the promised land of film noir... the big screens of Noir City and collector DVDs and Blu-rays...and restoration.

It's matter of creatively applying streaming to the cause. Imagine if UCLA's entire film noir catalog could be converted to streaming. Imagine if Netflix promoted film noir awareness, using the intelligence of its big data analytics.

[Nighthawk]

There will seemingly be a point where the general buying public will decide to wait until a film is offered by a streaming service rather than having to actually buy the film.

I don't know if we'll ever hit this point (and I hope we don't). Physical media will continue to exist in one form or another. Look at all the people that predicted the death of the printed page when e-readers first came out. That hasn't happened. People will always want to own a copy of a given piece of media -- whether it be books, films, music, etc. -- because it gives a sense of permanence to the item, instead of the ephemeral feeling that comes with streaming services. And for specialty areas such as film noir, as long as a market exists for physical media, a company will continue to put them out. Look at Olive Films and the Warner Archive Collection, just to name a couple. They've both found a way to profit from the sale of obscure film noirs, and Olive is leading the way in blu-ray releases, putting out rarities such as Private Hell 36 and Man-Trap on blu. I don't think that physical media is going away any time soon.

Plus, as Steve has pointed out previously, most well-known noirs are available in decent transfers, either on DVD or blu-ray. There's not much left other than the really obscure stuff (which I happen to enjoy), and even a lot of that stuff is making its way onto MOD DVDs. So buy them now and take care of them; once you have a copy, it's yours. I'm personally not concerned about physical media disappearing; there's still way too much money in it for the people who are selling the DVDs and the blu-rays.

[Movie Memories]

My feelings are very much in line with Nauga. The rapid changes in technology have little regard for what has become outdated. It's full-steam ahead, let the past be damned.

However, there are some very good points, as well as hopeful sentiment, in the responses here and I too will try to remain optimistic. In the meantime, I will continue to pick up as many older films that interest me as possible.

I like everything that Rick has said and his suggestion that streaming, by way of greater exposure, could very well increase the fan base for noir would certainly be correct. Can this increased fan base also increase restoration efforts? Personally, I'm not sure. While it will increase interest there must be a way for it to also increase revenue and the willingness of streaming services to participate in restoration. And they will have only one motivator...profit.

The only revenue numbers I have seen were in regard to the fourth-quarter of 2011 for Netflix. $476 million came from streaming and $370 came from dvd rentals. The profit margins still considerably favored dvd rental as each quarterly streaming subscriber generated $2.40 in profit and each quarterly dvd rental subscriber generated $17.32 in profit.

One of the main reasons for the profit margin disparity was the fact that the dvd business had fixed costs while Netflix had to negotiate streaming licenses on a case by case basis with each media company.

I haven't seen anything comparing streaming views with dvd, blu-ray sales.

Nighhawk, your analogy of the printed book vs. the e-reader is a good one. I still much prefer the printed book, but that is just a personal preference.

I'm sure that no matter how popular streaming is, and becomes, there will always be film lovers that want to own a physical product. Maybe the future will be limited release's such as the recent blu-ray release of The Big Heat...3,000 copies and that's it. While this still offers us something, it imposes limitations.

As you pointed out...buy them now and take care of them.

[noirguru]

It would be nice if a non-profit organization that's involved in film restoration, like MOMA or UCLA, etc., would start a streaming service of their own.

[Nauga]

It would be nice if a non-profit organization that's involved in film restoration, like MOMA or UCLA, etc., would start a streaming service of their own.

I would too. I'd like to agree with Rick that pay-for-streaming services like Netflix would drum up more interest, but that means Netflix would have to start making some smart decisions. Their deals with studios and TV networks means their catalog has gotten downright dismal compared to the vision that company had when it started. It used to be a haven for hard-to-find classics, documentaries and foreign films and now you have to wade through the awful straight to video releases.

[Steve-O]

A pretty good streaming service for film noir:
http://www.fandor.com/movie-genres/film-noir-films-86